Myriolecis salina?

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  • #33184
    aspeca
    Participant

      I’d appreciate a steer on this one. Found on a flint pebble in vegetated shingle at Shingle Street, an extensive shingle beach in VC25 East Suffolk. Growing among abundant Amandinea punctata (confirmed microscopically).

      Apothecia small (all >1 mm and some >0.5 mm), lecanorine and dispersed. Discs ranging from reddish brown to pale brown-grey, but both apothecium types looking identical in section. Thallus apparent only around some apothecia, and then only as small convex swellings. Prothallus apparently black, but not much of it. Hymenium short at ~60 µm. Spores colourless, aseptate, right for Myriolecis, at ~10-12 µm by ~5 µm. Mainly fine POL+ crystals in epithecium and amphithecium, and some inspersed in hymenium, but no ‘massive’ calcium oxalate crystals in amphithecium.

      No reactions so far as I can tell, apart from a faint UV+ dull orange (not at all like the distinct bright orange of M. fugiens or M. andrewii).

      LGBI3 is leading me to M. salina, which it describes explicitly as a coastal lichen of siliceous pebbles. And though I haven’t detected any C+ pink reaction (at least macroscopically, as I haven’t yet tried in section), M. salina is described in LGBI3 as C± pink.

      The lichen also seems to agree with the description of Polyozosia salina on ITALIC, especially in the POL+ crystals, which don’t appear in the LGBI3 description. (That said, ITALIC doesn’t seem to hedge on the C+ pink reaction in the same way as LGBI3 does.)

      The UV+ reaction stands out as potential counter-evidence to both LGBI3 and ITALIC, however. At the same time, I understand from a bit of digging around that M. salina is poorly understood as well as rarely recorded.

      Perhaps there’s a clearer identification that I’m just missing? Photos below.

      BTW — the map and text in LGBI3 suggests that M. salina has been recorded in East Suffolk before, but there are no such records in the BLS database. Does anyone know if the records have been re-assigned to another species, and if so which one?

      Many thanks,

      Anthony

      Amandinea punctata & Myriolecis salina sp inc 20260704-CA-1.jpg

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      #46972
      Paul Cannon
      Participant

        Firstly, I’m no expert in this group, so let the buyer beware…

        This is mostly a northern species and while it always appears to be maritime it’s not restricted to shingle. The BLS record for Pabbay came from coastal gneiss and I’ve seen it on maritime old red sandstone from Skye (see image). Collections on shingle always look odd, presumably it’s the extremely hard substrate making it difficult for fungal hyphae to penetrate. There doesn’t seem to be any reason not to record this as M. salina, but it could possibly also be an odd form of M. dispersa, I suppose. That seems to have a taller hymenium than yours, but I do wonder how many measurements have been made of such features.

        A08936a.jpg

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        The inland Suffolk records appear to be errors (possibly for Lecanora saligna?) but Janet would have to confirm this. They are missing from current BLS maps but still accessible in GBIF via an old version of the BLS database – and also from the Fungus Conservation Trusts’s CATE2 database. Not sure how they got hold of them. Caveat emptor here too…

        Best wishes

        Paul

        #46973
        aspeca
        Participant

          Many thanks, Paul. I had discounted Myriolecis dispersa due to the hard flint substrate, though I suppose it’s possible that the pebble is somewhat buffered by dust.

          For comparison, I’ve looked at some M. dispersa growing on a fragment of concrete slab that I took from the same location. For what it’s worth, its hymenium is taller but not hugely so — more like 70 µm rather than 60 µm.

          LGBI3 indicates that M. salina has noticeably wider paraphyses than M. dispersa, and that this is a distinguishing feature. Best efforts to measure the paraphyses of my M. salina put them generally over 2 µm wide, and up to 3 µm — which is in the range for M. salina but not M. dispersa. The paraphyses of my M. dispersa measure up a bit narrower, but there’s not much in it.

          And as you say — I wonder how often these things are measured. ITALIC doesn’t give any figure for M. dispersa paraphyses width, but the ITALIC figure for M. salina paraphyses is the same as the LGBI3 figure for M. dispersa paraphyses!

          My M. dispersa was also clearly UV-, whereas my putative M. salina appears to be UV+ dull orange. Apart from indicating a difference between the two, though, I’m unsure what to make of it, inasmuch as M. salina is supposed to be UV- as well.

          There are other southern records for M. salina from Hampshire and Somerset — presumably also from shingle. But as this would be a first record for Suffolk, I think I may hold out for now in the hope of finding a clearer specimen.

          Thanks again and best regards,

          Anthony

          #46974
          Neil Sanderson
          Senior Moderator

            Anthony

            These are photos from coastal shingle by the Solent:

            2013-11-10-03.jpg

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            Field picture, flint Warren Shore, Hampshire

            2013-11-15-06.jpg

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            Scan of specimen, flint Warren Shore, Hampshire

            I have been identifying it from the thallus composed of rounded granules. Your one is so depurperate I can not realy say any thing about it.

            Useful looking at the pictures from that day. This one was labelled Trapelia obtegens & Amandinea lecideina, but the Trapelia obtegens is clearly Rinodina aspersa, which would be the second Hampshire site, an excellent belated find.

            2013-11-15-05.jpg

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            Rinodina aspersa (center) & Amandinea lecideina

            All the best

            Neil

            #46975
            aspeca
            Participant

              Many thanks, Neil — it’s very helpful to see those photographs.

              Very helpful in more ways than one! Quite apart from Myriolecis salina, I immediately twigged from your third photo that I might have concluded Amandinea punctata too quickly, and that I should have checked more carefully to see whether I had A. pelidna (lecideina) on my pebbles instead.

              Having looked again at the spores, it seems I do. They appear to have the characteristic ‘girdle’ from median thickening at the septum. Let me know if you disagree.

              Amandinea pelidna 20260704-A-7.jpg

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              And as it happens, yesterday I was looking at a lichen on a siliceous gravestone that I couldn’t place, but which looked inexplicably like Rinodina aspersa and tested C+ red. Thanks to your photo, I now know it’s just a very scattered Trapelia obtegens.

              Best regards,

              Anthony

              #46976
              Neil Sanderson
              Senior Moderator

                Anthony

                I have not looked at A. pelidna for sometime but here is some Amandinea punctata I just looked at for work:

                2026-07-07-02.jpg

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                Amandinea punctata spores in K, on dead Broom stem Dungeness

                SO I think your spores are fine for A. pelidna.

                All the best

                #46977
                Neil Sanderson
                Senior Moderator

                  Oh yes with Rinodina aspersa and Trapelia obtegens, Rinodina aspersa has atranorin, so gives a K/UV(dry)+ bright yellow spot test while Trapelia obtegens does not, which is useful.

                  Neil

                  #46978
                  aspeca
                  Participant

                    Many thanks, Neil — very helpful as always.

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