Lecanora hybocarpa crystals

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  • #32799
    SylviaD
    Participant

      Hi,

      I wondered if anybody could shed some light on the appearance of these crystals in what I thought was a straightforward Lecanora hybocarpa growing on a wooden bench. The thallus was thin and the apothecia looked particularly neat with very smooth thalline margins. The lichen tested K+ yellow as I expected for L. hybocarpa. I took a few apothecia to section as I’ve been practising my sectioning skills. What I found under the microscope was not what I expected. Photos below show a section in water under polarising light – crystals on the epithecium surface showing really well penetrating downwards, something that I’ve not seen so well before. However there are no large chunky crystals, instead there are needle-shaped crystals. These show as just a very bright area when mounted in water. When mounted in KOH, the epithecial crystals dissolve, as expected, and the needle-like crystals can be seen much more clearly. I managed to get a photo at x400 of the crystals.

      All my other sections of L hybocarpa, L argentata and L campestris have all shown the correct position and size of crystals. So what I’m asking really is, is this just natural variation between L hypocarpa, or perhaps due to treatment of the bench with some chemical. Growing above this L hybocarpa was a very strange-looking Lecanora campestris, which I’ve also looked at under the microscope, but it looked fine for L campestris, despite having quite an odd macro appearance.

      Thank you

      Sylvia

      #46017
      aspeca
      Participant

        Dear Sylvia —

        Many thanks for sharing this Lecanora. I’ve found one like that as well, on a birch twig that I collected in Argyll last summer. I posted a Twitter thread about it — please see https://twitter.com/specanatura/status/1740325933310214160” class=”bbcode_url”>https://twitter.com/specanatura/status/1740325933310214160. I believe Jenny Seawright has seen a similar Lecanora as well.

        If you haven’t done so already, I’d recommend testing with Pd to determine whether you have the usual form of L. pulicaris.

        You may well do, as L. pulicaris prefers lignum or clean acid bark. In contrast to L. hybocarpa auct. br., L. pulicaris has fine (not individually discernible at <400x magnification) epithecial granules descending between the paraphyses. If your lichen is L. pulicaris, the thalline margin in particular should give a red reaction due to fumarprotocetraric acid.

        However, research in mainland Europe (Malicek, 2014) has shown that approximately 15% of L. pulicaris specimens lack fumarprotocetraric acid and give a Pd- test. This chemotype has not been reported from GB&I, but it may exist here. The only way to be sure would be to subject your specimen (or mine, or Jenny’s) to lab testing (TLC or DNA barcording).

        In the meanwhile — and assuming you don’t have the usual Pd+ red L. pulicaris, of course — it would be possible to record your specimen as Lecanora sp., keeping the photos for future reference and study.

        As for your crystals in K, though — it seems from your photos that you’re referring to the calcium oxalate crystals in the thalline margin? These crystals don’t dissolve in K, whereas the epithecial granules do.

        The Lecanora genus undoubtedly has more surprises in store for us British lichenologists! Indeed, I’m personally a bit unsure of our British Lecanora species concepts, which I believe Neil Sanderson’s elucidation of L. hybocarpa auct. br. has called into question somewhat. For more on that if you’re interested, please see my recent Fungi Forum post (to which I intend to add some future posts once time allows) — https://www.fungi.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4225” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.fungi.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4225.

        Best regards,

        Anthony

        #46018
        SylviaD
        Participant

          Thank you, I didn’t know that about the epithecial crystals for L pulicaris – these ones seem definitely finer than in the L hybocarpa I have looked at and stretch far down between the paraphyses. I will test with Pd – I have some, but have yet to make it up to use. However, I am still puzzled about the fact that the calcium oxalate has formed needle-like crystals in the thalline margin, rather than the large and sort-of angular cuboid crystals that I normally see and I thought this was the same in L pulicaris. Perhaps this is just a natural variation in the way the crystals are formed – wondered if anybody else has seen this.

          Sylvia

          #46019
          aspeca
          Participant

            Dear Sylvia —

            Thanks for your reply. I was about to send a follow-up to mine, as I saw that I may have misunderstood you in my excitement that another potential L. pulicaris of the Pd- chemotype might have been found!

            The epithecial granules in your first photo seem discernible at that magnification, which I assume is 100x or so. That suggests it may not be L. pulicaris of either chemotype. But it’s perhaps worth checking with Pd, as it does seem to have a bit of the L. pulicaris ‘look’ about it, and it’s on lignum. (Perhaps the substrate isn’t entirely significant, assuming the wood is highly eutrophicated. It probably must be to host L. campestris, which I believe doesn’t like acid substrates).

            It doesn’t seem the most typical example of L. hybocarpa auct. br. — normally the coarse, descending granules are more abundant, at least in my experience! But it’s also not clearly L. chlarotera s. str either. Some of the granules may have smeared down with the blade — i.e. those scattered deep ‘in’ the hymenium that don’t form a ‘chain of crystals’ back up to the epithecium. A test with Pd, and a section from another apothecium to check the crystals, might help.

            As for the calcium oxalate crystals — I haven’t seen them like that myself, but I suspect it’s possible for them to take that elongated form, if they’re deposited as the thalline margin grows. So far as I know, no distinction is made in the shape of the thalline margin crystals, but only their size (e.g. small for e.g. L. campestris and L. horiza, and large for e.g. L. pulicaris and L. hybocarpa auct. br.).

            Sorry I can’t be more definitive! Maybe someone else has some insight.

            Best regards,

            Anthony

            #46020
            SylviaD
            Participant

              That’s great Anthony, really helpful information. The photo of the section is indeed x100. I have never knowingly seen L pulcaris, but have been hoping to find it. I’ll make a few more sections and see how they turn out and get my act together with my Pd. As a beginner to this, I’ve only seen lovely cube-like crystals that were really obvious even under low power as they glint, so these needle-shaped ones really threw me. Their formation could have been influenced by external chemical factors or environmental – probably never know.

              Thanks once again

              Sylvia

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