UK Fungi

Cladonia with red C reaction

Forums › Forums › Lichens › Cladonia with red C reaction

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • February 18, 2025 at 10:07 am #32999
    Di N
    Participant

      This seems to fit Cladonia merochlorophaea. From small birch scrub heathy patch on coalspoil in Warwickshire. Initially thought it was C. pyxidata, as the large granules (c 100 um) looked maybe corticate, but noticed what might have been a brief red flash with C test.

      Wrote it down, then crossed it out as I thought I’d imagined it. Then remembered one of the Cladonias has a red KC reaction. Tested it. More pink-red than I’d expected for ‘wine-red’, but read the info on the BLS pages about the C. chlorophaea group. Re-tested with just C. Definitely a red reaction, albeit so fleeting I had to video it to catch it. Seems to fit Cladonia merochlorophaea.

      Di

      February 18, 2025 at 10:58 am #46497
      aspeca
      Participant

        Dear Di —

        Many thanks for this. I really do hope your tests show your lichen to be Cladonia merochlorophaea! It would be marvellous to be able to distinguish reliably between the cryptic species in the C. chlorophaea sens. lat. group using methods short of molecular techniques, and to have some good images showing what the relevant KC-reaction looks like.

        I once drew a similar conclusion to yours, though, only for Neil Sanderson to set me straight. According to Neil, the KC-reaction for C. merochlorophaea and C. cryptochlorophaea is a very distinct deep wine-purple.

        Neil will know best of course, but it’s possible that like me you might have the KC-reaction for fumarprotocetraric acid. Or as Neil put it to me, ‘probably just what one gets adding C to a K fumarprotocetraric acid reaction’.

        If you’d like to read about my own dashed excitement, you can find all the details in this thread: https://www.fungi.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4379” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.fungi.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4379.

        I was able to take some comfort: my lichen turned out to be a vice-county first for C. cyathomorpha! Figuring that out was also thanks to Neil.

        Best regards,

        Anthony

        February 18, 2025 at 11:13 am #46498
        Di N
        Participant

          Thanks for commenting, Anthony. I did a search in here for merochlorophaea, so I had read your post first, but I don’t think yours showed a red C reaction? Both the C and KC on this were distinctly pink-red visually rather than brownish, though it’s hard to get clear photos.

          I did have a look round for any more information, and noticed that on the Consortium of LIchen Herbaria page, the C and KC reactions of C. merochlorophaea are both described as ‘pink’ (but those are mostly/all US records, so might be somewhat different of course). https://lichenportal.org/portal/taxa/index.php?taxon=53435&clid=1009

          February 18, 2025 at 11:28 am #46499
          aspeca
          Participant

            Sorry, Di! Completely misread your post in my haste. Thought you were speaking about KC, not also C. That’s really hopeful then! And yes — my lichen showed no C-reaction that I could see, which I discounted as C. cryptochlorophaea is said to be C± yellow. Best, -A.

            February 18, 2025 at 2:18 pm #46500
            Neil Sanderson
            Senior Moderator

              Certainly looks like Cladonia merochlorophaea, with the very course granules and brownish colours. Given you actually saw the C+ red reaction and it has a KC reaction that is distinctly red, which is very rapid and fades fast then it would be definitely this.

              The K+ fumarprotocetraric reaction is slow and very brown and persists without fading. If you are slow with the C after placing the K you do see it beginning to develop when doing a KC test but the KC test is rapid and overwhelms it once the C is on. The C+ red test is usually very difficult to see and probably absent much of the time, but I think Cladonia merochlorophaea is reasonably distinct from Cladonia cryptochlorophaea in macro characters the latter is typically greener and has finer granules. The C+ red reaction is a good way to learn what Cladonia merochlorophaea, looks like, but will probably not identify most Cladonia merochlorophaea (groan!)

              As far as I understand it fumarprotocetraric only chemotypes of both Cladonia cryptochlorophaea and Cladonia merochlorophaea are possible and will just be part of the unidentifiable mass of Cladonia grayi group specimens; much of can only be recorded as Cladonia grayi s. lat. or ignored. (Cladonia chlorophaea s. str. is usually quite distinct in morphology, I think)

              Microcrystal tests actually should do these Cladonia grayi group quite well but I have not got around to this yet

              Neil

              February 18, 2025 at 4:42 pm #46501
              Di N
              Participant

                Thank you for the detailed and very helpful reply.

              • Author
                Posts
              Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
              • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.