Bit of a mystery this fungus, so I'm hoping you can help.
Cap: 6cm+, domed, brown top, lighter brown tinged with blue at edge, thinly fibrous, edge inrolled. Darkening to chocolate when wet but not viscid.
Gills: Adnate, close, light brown, darkening with age (because of spores?).
Flesh: Light grey-cream, tinged with blue below surface of cap. No obvious bruising. Had a cold so couldn't smell!
Stem: 75 x 18mm, greyish cream, scales on surface, flesh a little brittle.
Spores: Ochre/rust, 8.5-12 x 5.5-7.5, oval to pip-shaped.
Habitat: Found in loose clusters under oak, in birch/oak woodland.
Maybe it's not a Cortinarius, and the dry cap maybe suggests not.
Blue-tinged Cortinarius?
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Please do not ask for the identification of fungi for edibility or narcotic purposes. Any help provided by forum members is on the understanding that fungi are not to be consumed. Any deaths or serious poisonings are the responsibility of the person eating or preparing the fungus for others. If it is apparent from a post that the fungus is for eating or smoking etc, the post will be deleted and a warning given. Although many members do eat fungi, no-one would be willing to take someone else's life into their hands.
Blue-tinged Cortinarius?
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- Cluster under oak
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- Flesh with blueish tinge
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- Spore and cap colours
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- Spores
Re: Blue-tinged Cortinarius?
To revisit this frustrating fungus, I've added some photos of the early and later stages.
Given the overall features and the web remnants, I'm pretty sure it's a Cortinarius - but here the problems start. According to MushroomExpert.com: "Cortinarius is the largest genus of mushrooms in the world, containing an astounding number of species..." Yikes!
This specimen is hygrophanous, darkening to chestnut/chocolate when wet, and neither the stem nor cap is viscid or glutinous. This seems to narrow it down to the subgenus Telamonia. For the subgenus, this specimen is relatively large, with no umbo and with largish spores. The closest I can find is the Stocking Webcap (C. torvus) but mine is stockingless and the stem somewhat different.
If anyone has any ideas - great - otherwise I'll just have to leave it at that.
Given the overall features and the web remnants, I'm pretty sure it's a Cortinarius - but here the problems start. According to MushroomExpert.com: "Cortinarius is the largest genus of mushrooms in the world, containing an astounding number of species..." Yikes!
This specimen is hygrophanous, darkening to chestnut/chocolate when wet, and neither the stem nor cap is viscid or glutinous. This seems to narrow it down to the subgenus Telamonia. For the subgenus, this specimen is relatively large, with no umbo and with largish spores. The closest I can find is the Stocking Webcap (C. torvus) but mine is stockingless and the stem somewhat different.
If anyone has any ideas - great - otherwise I'll just have to leave it at that.
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Chris Yeates
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Re: Blue-tinged Cortinarius?
Hi Nick
yes it's a Cortinarius, but there the problems start. The few experts in this group do not agree on a lot of species deliminations and it's now down to sequencing to sort them out and see if there are any constant morphological characters which may help mere mortals in the future. There are (or appear to be) Cortinarius species which can be identified by careful study, but it really is a difficult area.
Chris
yes it's a Cortinarius, but there the problems start. The few experts in this group do not agree on a lot of species deliminations and it's now down to sequencing to sort them out and see if there are any constant morphological characters which may help mere mortals in the future. There are (or appear to be) Cortinarius species which can be identified by careful study, but it really is a difficult area.
Chris
"You must know it's right, the spore is on the wind tonight"
Steely Dan - "Rose Darling"
Steely Dan - "Rose Darling"
Re: Blue-tinged Cortinarius?
Many thanks for your comments, Chris. I’d guess many non-experts like myself naively assume that, armed with camera, microscope and references, every distinctive fungus is identifiable. Clearly not so.Chris Yeates wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:59 amHi Nick
yes it's a Cortinarius, but there the problems start. The few experts in this group do not agree on a lot of species deliminations and it's now down to sequencing to sort them out and see if there are any constant morphological characters which may help mere mortals in the future. There are (or appear to be) Cortinarius species which can be identified by careful study, but it really is a difficult area.
Chris
I’ve just come across the article "Cortinarius, subgenus Telamonia, section Disjungendi, cryptic species in North America and Europe" (Liimatainen, et al, 2014) and the authors, who used ITS sequences, add a pertinent conclusion: “This study demonstrates how difficult it can be to identify species only on the basis of morphology, and emphasizes the importance of molecular studies of type and of other specimens, particularly in groups with cryptic taxa.”
Thanks, again, and all the best.