Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

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Steve
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Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Steve » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:17 pm

Unidentified Club Fungi

Habitat: well-tended suburban garden in Sheffield, 3.2 miles from the Peak District National Park.
Substrate: soil by wooden edging.
Date: 1/11/2014
Habit: clustered clubs.
Height: aprox 5 cm., width of club approx 0.7 cm.
Tapering to narrow stem.
Colour: off-white, bruising brownish-red
Furrrows in head.
Flesh white, soft, crosss-section sub-circular.


Basidia mostly 4 spored but some 2-spored.

Spores hyaline, smooth, sub-spherical mostly.
6 x 5.5, 6 x 5, 5.5 x 5, 6 x 5, 5.5 x 5, 6 x 5.5, 6 x 5.5, 6 x 5, 6.5 x 5.5, 6 x 5, 6.5 x 5.5, 6 x 5, 5.5 x 5.5,
5.5 x 5.5, 6 x 5, 6 x 4.5, 6.5 x 5.5, 6.5 x 5, 5.5 x 5, 7 x 6, 7 x 6.5, 6 x 5,

(5) 5.5 – 6.5 (7) x 4.5) 5 – 5.5 (6)

Have been stuck on this one for nearly 4 years!
It looks like Clavaria tenuipes (spores smaller) or Clavaria straminea (spores larger).
I can’t find a great deal of literature on these brownish clubs.
Cheers,
Steve
Attachments
1 Macro.JPG
Field image
2 Habitat.JPG
Habitat
3 Growth.JPG
Growth
3a Size.JPG
Size
4 Cross-section.JPG
Cross-section
4 Cross-section.JPG (26.89 KiB) Viewed 445 times
5 Spores x 1000.JPG
Spores x 1000

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Lancashire Lad
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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Lancashire Lad » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:00 pm

Hi Steve,

It seems to have all the right characteristics for Clavaria tenuipes

Has the same macro looks, and spores are about right (and it grows in soil with grass, and has been recorded in suburban lawns).

Funga Nordica has C.tenuipes spores between 6.5-9.5µ x 4.5-5.0µ
Collins Fungi Guide has C.tenuipes spores at 4.0-5.0µ x 2.5-3.0µ

Seems like a wide discrepancy there? - or the spores can vary quite a bit?
Various online sites have the spores anywhere between those limits too ?????

See: - https://www.bioimages.org.uk/html/Clavaria_tenuipes.htm
(NB: the thumbnails on that site don't open to full size for me in Windows Explorer, but they do in Google Chrome)

There are articles on C.tenuipes in Transactions of British Mycological Society if you have access to those journals.
I haven't looked at the articles but these are the volume & page numbers, from the index: -

t e n u i p e S ; 3 , 182; 4, 193; 6, 186

t e n u i p e s , 50, 42

Ellis & Ellis (Fungi Without Gills) says this of both: -
Capture.JPG
Regards,
Mike.
Common sense is not so common.

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Chris Yeates
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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Chris Yeates » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:14 pm

Here is the illustration of Clavaria staminea from Corner's 1950 huge monograph on Clavaria and allies. He is reproducing the image from Cotton's original description of the species:
straminea.jpg
straminea.jpg (27.24 KiB) Viewed 420 times
Looks very different from Steve's fungus . . .

cheers
Chris
"You must know it's right, the spore is on the wind tonight"
Steely Dan - "Rose Darling"

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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by mollisia » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:26 pm

Hello,

Clavaria tenuipes has been separated in two species by KAJAN & GRAUWINKEL (1987).
C. tenuipes ss. str. is confined to burning places and has narrow spores (max. 8 µm x 3 µm), whereas C. krieglsteiner is growing without burning places and has spores up to 9,5 x 6,5 µm.
In Funga Nordica both are synonymous, but may be they are not. Spore shape, spore size and ecology would fit perfectly what in Germany is called Clavaria krieglsteineri.

best regards,
Andreas

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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Chris Yeates » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:54 pm

Hallo Andreas
Has there been any sequencing in this group?

LG
Chris
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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by mollisia » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:57 pm

Hello Chris,

I have no knowledge about.

best wishes,
Andreas

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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Steve » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:16 pm

Many thanks all,
A very comprehensive and useful response.
I have been reading about Corner - he was very much aware of how much more there always is to learn in science.
By the way, does anyone know if it is possible to access Corner's Monograph of Clavaria and Allied Genera (1967) 740 pages on the internet? After a long time searching I got just a few pages,
Cheers,
Steve

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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Steve » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:53 pm

I finally got to look at Corner's Monograph for an hour or so. His paintings are not masterpieces - explained perhaps by his comment:
"a painting, in itself, however elegant, is not worth the time spent upon it when it must be taken from the precious hours of collection".

Also interesting is his observation (from 1950) that "macroscopic direction has given way to microscopic confusion". Today it seems that microscopic direction has given way to DNA confusion.

Especially good is this bit: "Not until the hyphae have been traced through their elaborate organisation in fruit bodies from the mycelium to the spores....can the true problem of the higher fungi be seen. This is the principle which I call hyphal analysis and which I consider to be the only means that human beings have of understanding fungi".
Steve

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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Chris Yeates » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:59 pm

Steve wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:53 pm
. . .
Also interesting is his observation (from 1950) that "macroscopic direction has given way to microscopic confusion". Today it seems that microscopic direction has given way to DNA confusion.

Especially good is this bit: "Not until the hyphae have been traced through their elaborate organisation in fruit bodies from the mycelium to the spores....can the true problem of the higher fungi be seen. This is the principle which I call hyphal analysis and which I consider to be the only means that human beings have of understanding fungi".
Steve
I think it could be argued that sequencing is slowly sorting out previous confusions which we didn't realise were confusions, and that is somewhat analagous to Corner's "hyphal analysis".
A professional mycologist (not one working in the UK) recently commented to me as follows - it doesn't make entirely happy reading, the emphases are mine.
"But it really depends if the goal is identifying things or taxonomic research. These days the latter, in my view, requires heaps of sequencing to define the boundaries of the pheonotype, and then, and only then, do you look for morphological characters that reliably separate species with objectively quantified phenotypic variation. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes not and there are no adequate characters, and you have inseparable ‘species complexes’. Finally you don’t need the sequencer anymore. Identification carries on as normal, using reliable morphological characters. As a taxonomist, then yes there is a temporary problem if you don’t have that sequencing access.

The frustration I face is people who deny that pre-molecular definitions can, and have gone very badly wrong. They won’t accept that the new ways are much more objective and ultimately reliable. They say ‘New ways make things more difficult to identify than they used to be’. . . . . An observation is that the UK has lapsed far behind many other countries in sorting out the historical use of names using new techniques. I’d guess that nearly all the names in the major speciose mushroom groups are being used randomly, and that distribution maps are mostly fiction. The UK has a scary backlog to sort out.
"
"You must know it's right, the spore is on the wind tonight"
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Re: Whitish-brown club fungi in a suburban garden

Post by Steve » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:42 pm

Not really that scary, Chris, when, in my experience, most Wildlife Site Managers or Conservation Officers don't know and don't actually want to know about fungi whatever their names - except as an unavoidable box to tick in the autumn. For which purpose they seem to generally employ experts who do not know an objective from an eyepiece lens because they do not like the hard work of microscopy. At least rahnd ahr neck o' woods. Does it matter what names we give to fungi when 100 ancient woodlands are going to be destroyed by HS2?
Rome is burning and we are fiddling away. Let's all enjoy the music while it lasts.
Steve

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