Re: On Enchanter's Nightshade - but don't think its a rust..

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Steve
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Re: On Enchanter's Nightshade - but don't think its a rust..

Post by Steve » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:39 am

[mod edit :- Moved from my topic about enchanters nightshade which has gone somewhat off-topic :) ]

Hi Adam,
I first mixed up Enchanter's Nightshade with Dog's Mercury when I found it covered in mildew :lol: - Chris Y put me right. (((Chris is always right in my experience .....except about the southern boundary of Yorkshire, which runs 200 yards to the N of my house according to the Victorian maps he uses, but not to the fierce Yorkshire folk round here, to whom Yorkshire ends at the Greenhill (pronounced Grennel) Brook. I think that given the fact that the vast majority of all our records are post 2000, and the redundancy of so many old records, ought to lead to ditching the quaint but archaic mapping system. It's all at odds with eg Sheffield and Barnsley Biological Recording Centre, which uses modern boundaries. When I sent in records to them I had to run a line down the Meersbrook, the River Sheaf and the Limb Valley right through city of Sheffield to split them into VC Counties 63 and 57. Let's face it, the Tories won't find it hard to change boundaries when they get the chance))). Anyway, my botany is improving. I'm finding your Pucciniastrum rust, plus Puccinia circaea (easily spotted by the red leaf spots) and Erysiphe circaea on Enchanter's Nightshade all over Longshaw Estate just now - on the same plants as often as not. To be fair, the mildew and your rust can be very easy to miss - I tilt the leaves to get a better view.
Cheers,
Steve

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Chris Yeates
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Re: On Enchanter's Nightshade - but don't think its a rust..

Post by Chris Yeates » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:32 pm

Steve wrote:Chris is always right in my experience .....except about the southern boundary of Yorkshire, which runs 200 yards to the N of my house according to the Victorian maps he uses, but not to the fierce Yorkshire folk round here, to whom Yorkshire ends at the Greenhill (pronounced Grennel) Brook. I think that given the fact that the vast majority of all our records are post 2000, and the redundancy of so many old records, ought to lead to ditching the quaint but archaic mapping system. . . . .
Steve
You mustn't be so parochial Steve. The Watsonian VC system is an absolute boon - immune to the occasional swish of a Whitehall pen. Unfortunately Sheffield expanded and there the problems began - it's an anomaly (let's face it Sheffield is anomalous in several ways ;) ). The historic Yorkshire existed until 1974 (hardly "archaic" or "Victorian"); indeed it still does exist as was recognised some years ago by some Tory or other when he was questioned on it one August 1st.

Those "fierce Yorkshire folk" may well be fierce, but they are "comers-in" thanks to a decison in London in the 1970s. Try telling the people of Middlesbrough that they are not Yorkshire folk but "Clevelanders", let's not forget the horror that was "Humberside". Ask the people in Slaidburn (in the Forest of Bowland) or Saddleworth whether they think of themselves now as Lancastrians or denizens of Greater Manchester respectively and see the response you get. Go to Sedbergh and tell them they should think of themselves as "Cumbrians".

Frankly I can't believe I'm having to defend the vice-county system . . . . . btw was does "the redundancy of so many old records" mean?

yours tyke-ily
Chris
;)
"You must know it's right, the spore is on the wind tonight"
Steely Dan - "Rose Darling"

Steve
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Re: On Enchanter's Nightshade - but don't think its a rust..

Post by Steve » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:30 am

Hi Chris,
Let's say there may be some element of redundancy in some old records! A huge chunk of my older collected Sheffield area records are by "Anon".
To take one example, I don't believe most of the Crepidotus records, (but there again I don't believe those being currently provided by local "experts" who never look down a microscope). It might also be unwise to correlate many old names with new ones as we now are in a world with far more recognised kinds of fungi. How good are many old records? Without an evidence base we can have little idea.
As for the VC county system - it will surely be kicked into history one day because recording bodies like the BMS and ABFG will hopefully want to align with local government biodiversity sectors which are based on modern administrative boundaries, and will be the first port of call for ecologists when planning applications are made to cut down ancient woodlands etc. We have recent experience of this in Sheffield.
"Fixed ideas are like standing water and breed reptiles of the mind" (Blake) :mrgreen: .
Re old records, I checked out the collection of preserved fungi from the 1960's at Sheffield Museum recently. Some were wrongly labelled (Piptoporus betulinus as Stereun hirsutum), some had stalks and caps mixed up. But by and large most looked OK, fair play. Ironically, none of them are in my collection of local records (over 80,000).
Some of the specimens are incredible like the 50 year old Coprinellus micaceus (which wouldn't last a night and a day if fresh). Others looked less certain such as the bleached "Peziza aurantia". I was allowed a tiny piece which John and I confirmed as Aleuria aurantia as the microscopic detail was almost perfect, apart from the lack of orange pigment. A "Flammula sapinea" might be less convincing, as I think Gymnopilus sapineus is hard to separate from Gymnopilus penetrans. Interestingly almost all the specimens were easily recognised common species. The biggest coollection was from Longshaw, just over the border from Yorkshire, 7 miles from here!
Ah'll sithee,
Steve
Attachments
Coprinus micaceus.JPG
Coprinus micaceus - probably
Flammula sapinea.JPG
Flammula sapinea - maybe
Hygrophorus hypothejus.JPG
Herald of Winter - certainly
Peziza auranta.JPG
Orange Peel Fungus?
Peziza aurantia micro.jpg
Yes!
Part of collection.JPG
Part of the collection

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Chris Yeates
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Re: On Enchanter's Nightshade - but don't think its a rust..

Post by Chris Yeates » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:43 pm

Steve wrote: . . . .
As for the VC county system - it will surely be kicked into history one day because recording bodies like the BMS and ABFG will hopefully want to align with local government biodiversity sectors which are based on modern administrative boundaries, and will be the first port of call for ecologists when planning applications are made to cut down ancient woodlands etc. . . . .
Steve
Hi Steve
I work in the public sector and trust me in the next few years we will see vast reductions. I don't know if you know about the Barnet Graph of Doom? http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012 ... ces-barnet; trust me elected members will see "local government biodiversity" as one of the easier areas to cut (ahead of museums, art galleries and libraries - watch those topple in the next few years). Mr Osborne has talked of http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33610801; almost certainly a ploy - when it's only 20% or 25% we all sigh with relief :roll: .
Of course that will make it a lot harder to reject planning applications - music to the ears of some http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... t-localism. I'm getting dangerously political here but what the hell! We are being run by a group of people who are extremely rich themselves, in a party financed by the London financial sector (and they know they are safe for a good while now). Why would they care about biological records centres in the North of England? Whether we record by VC, administrative area, grid reference or whatever will be totally irrelevant.

Oh, and as an afterthought, has ABFG ever aligned itself with anybody? Are its records now on NBN for example?

Chris

PS perhaps the relevant bits of this thread could be moved to General Discussion? Steve has raised some important points here . . .
"You must know it's right, the spore is on the wind tonight"
Steely Dan - "Rose Darling"

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