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Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:41 pm
by Simon Horsnall
Came across this lichen on an old iron works site. It appeared to be growing on the soil. Surrounded by sparse birch scrub. Any chance of a steer in the right direction please? Rabbit turd included for scale.
Picture 022.jpg

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:02 pm
by Chris Johnson
Hi Simon

It's in the genus Peltigera but you need to look at the rhizines and veins on underside to get much further.

Cheers, Chris

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:18 pm
by Simon Horsnall
Thanks Chris. Perhaps should have mentioned I brought a small sample back for just such an eventuality. I can see rhizines and venation. There is still a large amount of adhering substrate so don't want to yank it off and find I've damaged the very structures I need to see. I'm not sure I could get a decent photograph of them either. Attached is my best effort.
Picture.jpg

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:07 am
by Chris Johnson
Not sure there is enough here to take this any further, Simon. I've asked Christine to take a look as she has been looking at the genus recently.

I note JennyS hasn't commented, which is probably a comment in itself ;)

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:41 am
by CJohnsonOHBR
Hi Simon,
From your first photograph the upper surface looks to be smooth (i.e. not tomentose or felted) with up-turned edges and a pale underside. Unfortunately the photograph of the underside is not sufficiently defined to make a confident identification. However, if the veins are flattened and pale or tan with pale interstices and the rhizines are simple (may have tufted ends) and widely spaced, it is probably P. hymenina.
When trying to identify Peltigera it is important to look at both surfaces.
I would recommend looking at Jenny's sites (http://www.dorsetnature.co.uk/lichen/dn ... hen.html#P, http://www.irishlichens.ie/) and also Alan Silverside's website (http://www.lichens.lastdragon.org/).

Hope this helps

Christine

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:43 pm
by Simon Horsnall
Thanks Chris and Christine.

It appears to have a very fine, pale tomentum which is densest at the thallus margins (at X20). The veins are flattened and pale with pale interstices, in most cases almost indiscernible but in a few cases slightly darker, tan coloured. Most rhizines are simple but some have tufted ends (from about 2/3rds from base).

That probably doesn't clear it up any. It does have a rather attractive lichenicolous fungus growing on it as well.

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:53 am
by diggleken
I have a feeling that size , substrate/habitat and rhizines are pointing to P. didactyla.
More interesting is any lichenicolous fungi - got any shots/details of that?
Cheers
Ken

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:20 pm
by Simon Horsnall
Sorry I overlooked this. Small clusters of orange spots approx 0.5 - 1 mm across. Will try to get photos tomorrow.

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:46 pm
by diggleken
Hi Simon, not just photos, can you ensure substrate too please?
Your suggestion of orange spots fits with Marchandiomyces corralinus/aurantiacus, usually on Parmelia sp or, but usually on Physcia sp, Illosporiopsis christiansenii - neither is known to me colonising Peltigera.........but I don't know everything, there might be something!
Does this help?
http://www.lichens.lastdragon.org/liche ... linus.html
Cheers
Ken

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:21 pm
by JennyS
Corticifraga fuckelii is lichenicolous on Peltigera's, but with whitish to orange-brown apothecia rather than orange and only 0.2-0.5mm diam.
http://www.dorsetnature.co.uk/pages-lichen/lch-346.html

Illosporiopsis is pink rather than orange, and like Marchandiomyces not known on Peltigera's - but there are plenty of others that are and if you can get a look at the spores that would help

Re: Lichen on waste ground

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:56 am
by Simon Horsnall
Thanks guys. I shall see what I can do but I'm really at the limit of my photographic skills. The closest match of the three is the Marchandiomyces corallinus but I would say that it is more orange than pink (maybe pinkish orange but not pink). I'll try to get some under the microscope as well.

The substrate is a corner of the lichen shown in the first photograph.